Wendy Corr:
Well, hello, folks, and welcome to The Roundup! We are a Cowboy State Daily podcast that features people - really interesting people - from around the Cowboy State. I'm your host, Wendy Corr. And today, really, an interesting person with a really interesting job!
Our guest today is the Superintendent of Grand Teton National Park, Chip Jenkins. And Chip has come to us - he's no stranger to this part of the country - but he comes to us with a wealth of years of really wonderful experience in the National Park Service. And yet, he's at one of the crown jewels of the National Park system. I mean, Chip, you've got the Grand Tetons in your backyard. I mean, you just can't get much better than that when it comes to a view, right?
Chip Jenkins:
I have the best job in the National Park Service.
Wendy Corr:
Okay, well, I'm gonna hold you to that, because there's a lot of other people that think they've got the best job. Why is yours the best?
Chip Jenkins:
Oh, my job. First of all, it's this spectacular landscape in this ecosystem, and getting to live and work with people in Wyoming, and in this part of Wyoming, actually from across the state. The level of support, the level of interest, the level of care that people have for this place is really pretty stunning. And we're really lucky to have all of that.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, my gosh, are we ever - for those of us who've lived here for any period of time, and even for people who have moved here because of the landscape and because of the land, there is a special love in our hearts, all of us for, especially, the Tetons. And there you are, you get to be in it every day. Tell us about your journey. How did you get to Grand Teton? Where did you grow up, Chip?
Chip Jenkins:
Well, my first twelve years, I spent living on the East Coast in Connecticut, and then my parents moved to California. I went through high school and college in California. It was actually my senior year in college that I started working for the National Park Service as a seasonal ranger at North Cascades National Park, on the Washington Canadian border. And literally from that time, I have been with the National Park Service ever since, working summer seasonal jobs, working as other temporary jobs, having the chance to be able to work my way up. I’m very lucky.
Wendy Corr:
So the National Park Service got their hooks into you?
Chip Jenkins:
Very much so. You know, I think, having grown up on the East Coast and then moving to the West Coast, when I was a teenager, being able to visit some of these landscapes like Yosemite National Park, Sequoia National Park, Redwoods, Point Reyes, you know, just really inspired me in terms of wanting to be able to do something, not just in terms of the outdoors, but also, I think as I went through my education, I also became very interested in public service. And so the opportunity to be able to do those things, to be able to work for something bigger than myself, to be able to be part of something that is so important to this country, you know, it's a gift. It’s a gift.
Wendy Corr:
It is - and you're not the only member of your family that works for the Park Service. Your wife, Laurie, also works for the Park Service. Tell us about that.
Chip Jenkins:
That's right, my wife works for the National Park Service. She is part of a program called the National Natural Landmark program, where in part, they work with private landowners as well as other agencies on honorific designations of places that are really interesting ecological or geological features. And so it's pretty cool. She gets to travel around the West to be able to meet with property owners that care about preserving places on their land.
And then actually my son, who is 22, will be on his third year of the Yellowstone trail crew this year.
Wendy Corr:
Awesome! So your family works in all aspects, really - and you have worked in so many aspects of the National Park Service and the different jobs and things like that. What have you experienced in your career that really stands out to you? Are there moments, are there experiences that you've had in the National Park Service, that still now, are things that you look back on fondly?
Chip Jenkins:
Yeah, geez, there’s too many memories to count. But what I would say is that, you know, many of the memories revolve around people, whether it's revolving around special memories with my family, in terms of being able to busman's holiday - you know, most of our vacations actually translate in terms of… geez, I got a little emotional there, didn’t I… around visiting national parks, camping, hiking, paddling, skiing in national parks, going and visiting places with friends, just like you and many of your listeners.
I've also just been really fortunate in terms of being able to work with just some amazing people. People who are at the best at what they do - whether it's providing education programs, or working with wildlife, or doing search and rescue, or doing those routine things, but really important - like making sure that the roads get plowed. All of the things that enable people to be able to come and enjoy these places, while also seeing just iconic landscapes, iconic places, that means so much to Americans.
Wendy Corr:
You have worked at some really iconic places. Before you came here to Grand Teton, you were the superintendent at Mount Rainier National Park, you have been at North Cascades, you've been at Lewis and Clark there on the Oregon border, the Washington-Oregon border. And then also, you had a couple of stints at Yosemite. So tell us about some of those experiences? What are some things that stand out to you that you look back on and say, “Wow, I'm so glad I did that.”
Chip Jenkins:
It's the chance to be able to work in places where most Americans and many people come from around the world in terms of, like, these are places that we need to see. To be able to go and see Yosemite Falls, or to be able to see El Capitan, or to be able to be up at Paradise in Mount Rainier, and to walk in the wildflowers amongst the glaciers, hiking the last stretch of the Pacific Crest Trail where it crosses into Canada. Being there at the turnaround spot for the Lewis and Clark Expedition on the Washington-Oregon coast, and thinking back 200 years of what it was like, in terms of those guys having traveled for three years across the country to visit the Pacific.
Really, just the word I keep using is just, iconic. And these are places that, as kids we read about in textbooks, or that we see specials on TV about. Often we'll get postcards or letters, or these days, you know, emails or texts, or Instagram posts from family and friends who are on their vacations and saying, “We've just had this amazing experience and wanted to share it with you.”
And to be able to live and work and care for these places is, you know, really the only way to put it is, it's an honor. It's an honor to be able to do this work.
Wendy Corr:
Well, you have obviously come to the right place, because you're now at Grand Teton, which - you think of Wyoming, and so much of our marketing and so many of the things that people think of, the first thing they think of is that landscape, that silhouette of the Grand Tetons there.
So, I mean, you're an administrator, so you spend a lot of time administrating. But I'm assuming that you get out there, and you get to talk to the people that come in to Grand Teton as well.
Chip Jenkins:
Well, first of all, I get to look out my office window, and I have a view of the Grand, the middle of the South, which is pretty great. And I look out this window and I see the visitor center where people come in.
Yeah, during the workday, a lot of what I'm doing is meeting with employees, working to solve problems, working to try to get people the tools and the resources that they need to be able to do their job. But I think one of the reasons that I do this work and that many others is because we love to live in these places.
We love to be able to get out and hike, to be able to paddle on the river, or to be able to be on the lake, to be able to climb in the mountains, to be able to go skiing in the back country. So pretty much after work and on weekends, that's where we are.
I do make it a point, my wife and I, we try to camp in every one of the front country campgrounds each summer, so that we have an understanding of what the experiences that people are having. We go and we eat in the restaurants to see how things are doing. And then, during the summer months, we love to be in the backcountry, whether it's the opportunity to try to climb the Grand, or go for long hikes. And in the winter we're out, whether it's skiing on the groomed trails or trying to go up to 25 Short and doing some of the backcountry skiing.
And when you're out and doing this, you're meeting people, hearing what they're doing, what their experience is like, and it's kind of fun.
You know, most of the time, I don't tell people that I work for the National Park Service. Every once in a while I’ll tell them I work for the park, and every once in a while, I'll tell them the job that I have. I don't know if you've ever seen the show ‘Undercover Boss’, but I think it's important to be out and about and see what you experience in the park and try to have that experience, so that you understand what the 3 million plus people who are coming here, what kind of experience they're having.
As well as, also, the people who work here, it is really important to understand our frontline employees and what they're facing, what they're dealing with, and what they're doing.
Wendy Corr:
I think that's fantastic that you're out there being Undercover Boss! That's wonderful.
But you mentioned 3 million plus visitors. I mean, almost every month, we're talking about visitor numbers in, whether it's Yellowstone, whether it's Grand Teton, whether it's Wyoming as a whole - you are getting so many more visitors now than ever. How is that impacting, not just the infrastructure there, but the staff, and how you deal with this many visitors? How is it going there in Grand Teton, as far as addressing the increase in visitation, especially since COVID?
Chip Jenkins
Yep, that's a great question. We have had - so in the last 10 years, since 2014, our visitation is up about 22%. Now, it really spiked in ‘20 and ‘21 to be much higher. We had a dip, we are back up this year. In fact, visitation in 2023, was about what it was in 2019. So we're kind of back on that trend in terms of things going on.
But I think it's really important for you and for other people to understand is, visitation now, it's not like a thermometer. It's not like the number is just going up and down. It's much more like a balloon, because what we're seeing is that visitation is changing. And the way that people are visiting on the landscape is different. So while visitation is up 22% in the last 10 years, our backcountry use, the number of people who are hiking on the trails, is up 35%. So we're actually seeing more people getting out of their cars and going for a walk.
And so on the one hand, that's really cool. That's great news. We love it that people are getting out, and that they're in the park and experiencing it. But what that also means is that there's additional challenges for us, in terms of, how do we educate people, in terms of recreating responsibly, dealing with additional trash, dealing with human waste. And also just dealing with, people having more people around them as they are on the trails.
And there are some places where we have the infrastructure, where we can accommodate people and growing visitation - like at Jenny Lake, where we've done a massive renovation, where we can accommodate a lot of people being there. And then there are places where, there on the trails, where maybe the experience is being impacted by having more people there.
And what we're trying to do now in Grand Teton, we’re not as advanced as Yellowstone is. I think under the leadership of previous superintendents, but particularly under Cam (Sholly), they spent a lot of time really trying to understand and analyze, what are the visitor patterns? Where are people going? And trying to get crystal clear on, do they have problems?
And I think Cam has done a great job, in terms of leading his team, to really try to understand that, yes, while there are challenges in Yellowstone - places like Midway Geyser basin, the North Rim of the Grand Canyon - there are other places, like throughout the whole backcountry, where they really don't have challenges.
So since I've been here, we have been working on trying to follow Yellowstone's lead and do similar kinds of studies, to have a better understanding of how people are experiencing the park, and trying to bring into focus, do we have problems? Are there places where there are issues?
And so I think for me, part of what's interesting, is what we have learned just the last couple of years, some things that may surprise folks. So for example, Grand Teton is largely a day use park. And what I mean by that is, about 85% of our visitors spend the night someplace else. Only 18% of our visitors - so we had about 3.4 million visitors last year, and about 15% of our visitors spend the night in the park, in the campgrounds, or in the lodging, or in the backcountry. 85% of our visitors, they spend the night in a hotel in Jackson or they spend it in a VRBO in Dubois, or they are driving up from Pinedale, or they're coming over from Victor or Driggs, or they're coming from Idaho Falls - as far away as staying in hotels in Riverton and coming to the park for the day. So that's a really interesting thing in terms of, you think about it, that we're a day use Park. And what does that mean in terms of helping to support people having a high quality visit?
The other thing that we've learned is, 95% of our visitors are from somewhere else. And while there are a lot of voices, sometimes loud voices, about what they want to have happen at Grand Teton, about 5% live in Teton County, Wyoming or Teton County, Idaho. And the way that us locals visit the park is very different than the way that people from other places visit the park.
The way locals tend to visit the park is, we know where we're going. We're going to go for a hike up on Garnet Canyon today. So we get in our car, we drive up the loop into the trailhead, we park the car, we go on an 8, 10, 12 hour hike, or we go up to String Lake to go for a paddle, or we go up to the Jackson Dam and we float the river for the day.
What's happening with the majority of other people who are visiting the park is, there's no defined travel pattern. And this is really interesting, because I think we all, up until a couple of years ago, were thinking, “Oh, the majority of people, they arrive at the park, they go to the visitor center, then they go to Jenny Lake, then they go someplace else.” And what we've learned in the last couple of years is, actually, people go all over the place, and they don't necessarily go there in any particular order.
What people really do is, they enjoy driving through the park, and when they see something cool, they stop. So you know, as soon as you come up over the hill from Jackson, and people see the Grand, they find a pull out and they pull over and they're there for 10 minutes, and they take a picture. If they're driving along through Antelope Flats and there's a moose, they pull over and they watch the moose for a while. If they're up by Elk Ranch Flats, and Moran, and there's bison on the side of the road, they pull over and they watch the bison. And it may not be until their third, fourth, sixth stop that they get to a visitor center, or they talk to a ranger.
And so a lot of what the visitation is in Grand Teton, is people are making a lot of stops for short durations - they stop here for 10 minutes, they go to the visitor center for 30 minutes, they go to Jenny Lake for an hour. So it's just trying to learn about that, because then that will help shape our, like, where do we have challenges, and what might we need to do to address those challenges?
Wendy Corr:
You know, you mentioned the attractions, and the different things that people come to the park for. You, there, are host to one of the biggest celebrities in the world - Grizzly 399. Tell me, how as an organization do you deal with that much attention on one particular animal, who just happens to live in your park?
Chip Jenkins:
Yeah, well, 399 has been an amazing ambassador in terms of helping people learn about and become really interested in grizzly bears. And, again, if you go back to my comment about visitation, it’s not a thermometer, but it's more like a balloon. One of the things that we have seen over the last 10 years is a very, very substantial growth in people coming to Grand Teton, not to see the Tetons, to see wildlife.
People are coming here from all over, all around the world, because they want to be able to see grizzly bears, they want to be able to see elk, bison, they want to see wolves. And one of the cool things about Grand Teton is actually it's relatively easy to be able to do that - and, of course, that does create challenges for us. It creates challenges for us in terms of keeping the animals safe, it's challenging as far as, in terms of keeping people safe.
So at Grand Teton, we are really, really fortunate that we have this group of volunteers, about 30 people, they work close to full time, and they are part of our Wildlife Brigade. Their job is to be out on the roads - and so when there are wildlife that are visible, whether it's 399, one of the other grizzly bears, or it's other animals, and people want to stop, they swing into action. They've got procedures where they work to help people park, to help people see the animals, but also make sure that they're keeping the appropriate distance, particularly where the animals are moving around. And trying to enable it so that people get that good photograph, learn something about the animals - why are they here? Well, they're feeding on biscuit root. Or, you know, which animal is that? Is that offspring? When do they breed? They help try to provide a wide range of information to folks, so folks are not just seeing the wildlife, but they're actually learning and helping to be connected to it.
And so we're so fortunate to have this group of committed volunteers that work in concert with our professional wildlife biologists, to help people be able to see the animals.
Wendy Corr:
What a unique program, oh, my gosh, that's fantastic. I knew nothing about this! I think that's great. That's got to help your staff as well, and give a little relief to your staff, because I'm sure your rangers are just kind of going crazy, especially during the middle of tourist season.
Chip Jenkins
That is exactly right. I mean, if we did not have those committed and highly skilled volunteers helping to do that, our law enforcement rangers would be much more involved. We would have problems in terms of traffic getting blocked for other visitors trying to do other stuff, or emergency services going through. So we're really fortunate.
And it's also kind of crazy, we have close to 600 volunteers that work at Grand Teton National Park every year. About 150 of them work full time, 40 hours a week. And many of them are very, very skilled people - whether they are folks who are teachers, there are people who are doctors, attorneys, we literally we have a person who was a two star Admiral, people who were corporate CEOs, Chairmen of the Board of prominent fortune 500 companies, who now give of their time to do this work. Really amazing.
Wendy Corr:
That is just phenomenal. Oh my gosh. So just a side note here, how does somebody become a volunteer at Grand Teton?
Chip Jenkins:
There’s a web application process with us. And believe it or not, we treat our employees - all of our people are employees. Some people get a paycheck, some people volunteer, and they get compensation another way. And so, it's very important to us that we treat all of our employees well. They need to have clear position descriptions, and they need to have uniforms, and they need to have radios and vehicles, and they need to get adequately trained, and they need to get supervised.
And so we actually recognize that there's a finite number of volunteers that we can manage, that we can provide that support to, that we can supervise effectively.
And so, there are application processes - people can go to our website, and you can find in the Grand Teton website, our volunteer program, and apply. And we love getting new talent. There's always people rotating in and out. We're coming into the time of year now where we will start to onboard our employees, and so starting the last week in April, running through the first week in June, we will bring on about 150 summer employees and about 150 full time volunteers.
Wendy Corr:
Well, it sounds like you're gearing up. I mean, you're probably getting excited for it. We're in spring now, so you're probably getting excited for the upcoming season. When does Grand Teton National Park open?
Chip Jenkins:
Well, we're open year round. So, year round, people can come and they can recreate, they can watch the wildlife that are around. But what we will have here is, we have been plowing the inner park road. You know, one of the fun things that goes on here at Grand Teton is from April 1st to April 30th, that 12 miles of the Park Road, while it will be plowed and dry, it'll be closed to vehicles, but open to people to walk, ride your bike, skateboard, rollerblade. And on a great sunny day, it's a wonderful thing to go out there and ride your bike along, or rollerblade along the base of the Tetons.
During that period of time, from now until about the first of May, we're busy de-wintering - getting facilities open, getting water systems turned on, power systems turned on, so that we can get housing open, so that we can bring employees into the housing. Then as we get more employees, we can open up more facilities.
And really, our main Visitor Center opens on May 1, and kind of between May 1st and Memorial Day weekend is a rolling opening of the facilities. And then of course, in the backcountry, as the snow melts out, the trails become more accessible for hikers.
Wendy Corr
So your active season is about to start.
Chip Jenkins:
We are - well, let's just say, we're pretty darn active right now in terms of plowing operations, onboarding employees remotely, giving them information and training. People will start to show up here in the next couple of weeks. So, while there's still three or four feet of snow on the ground, we're trying to get the first wave of employee housing open, to get people on board.
Wendy Corr:
Excellent. I want to switch gears just slightly here, because I think that it's pretty great, the collaboration and the partnership that you, Chip Jenkins, has with superintendent of Yellowstone Cam Sholly. Because the two of you appear together a lot, because Yellowstone and Grand Teton in so many ways go hand in hand. And yet you're completely separate parks, not completely different - you do have unique challenges all your own. So tell me about your collaboration with Cam Sholly over there in Yellowstone.
Chip Jenkins:
So, we have a great partnership and a great working relationship, both between Cam and I, but also through all of the park staff.
And I think, first of all, enormous credit to Cam. So Cam and I have known each other for well over 20 years. We worked together 20 years ago in Yosemite. His son Cole and my son Logan were both born within months of each other when we were in Yosemite. And they were in daycare there.
And when I got the job here, Cam had already been well established up in Yellowstone, and Cam was very just a great leader in terms of welcoming me to the ecosystem, and very gracious in terms of helping to introduce me to many people. And since that time - you know, Cam and I were texting this morning and texting last night. And so we communicate very, very frequently about what's going on, whether it's things that are going on in terms of national policy that we want to have influence, to things that are going on locally, right here.
And I think the tone that Cam set and that we're engaged with, it goes through both parks - and so we have great working relationships between our biologists, between our law enforcement rangers, fire program, there's concessions operations, at all different levels there's collaboration and cooperation that goes on.
Wendy Corr:
That's fabulous. That's great. Tell me, what are some things that you two are concerned about, from a national perspective? Are there policies, are there things that the two of you are considering real challenges for the job that you're trying to do here in Wyoming?
Chip Jenkins:
I think it's everything from, how do we make sure that we have high quality employee housing, so that we can take care of our folks here at Grand Teton? Just given the housing market in Jackson Hole, both in terms of the availability as well as the costs, I'm in a very unusual situation, where we have to house about 95% of our employees.
Wendy Corr:
On site there?
Chip Jenkins:
Yes, at various places within the park. And so, you know, taking steps in order to be able to increase our housing stock, both by building new housing - we're following Yellowstone's lead, where Cam pioneered the use of these modular houses that were built in a factory in Minnesota. Six new houses for Grand Teton are being built in that same factory and will be delivered here in May, and this time next year, they’ll be occupied; to adaptively reusing historic structures; to work around changing visitation, and understanding in terms of how people come, how we work with them in terms of being able to manage visitation; to the ecosystem, and how we are working to be able to sustain the very reason that that both Wyomingites are proud of this place, but also people come from around the world to visit it.
And that means, how is it that we work collaboratively between the parks, but also with everybody else, to have sustainable grizzly bear populations and elk populations and pronghorn. And as big as Yellowstone is, the needs of many of the wildlife are bigger, as we are seeing by the fact that bison and elk and grizzly bears and wolves move in and out of these parks. And so we work really, really hard to be in alignment between our parks. And then as we work with our partners, like, at Wyoming Game and Fish, which we have a very, very solid and robust working relationship with.
Actually, one thing I'll just touch on, if you don't mind - one of the ways that we collaborate on is that there's this collection of agencies called the Greater Yellowstone Coordinating Committee, which, this year we're celebrating the 60th anniversary of the Greater Yellowstone Coordinating Committee. And 60 years ago, it was seven national forests, the two national parks, the Bureau of Land Management, and Fish and Wildlife Service, signed a memorandum of understanding, recognizing that this 23 million acre ecosystem is nationally significant, and that we should coordinate our activities in order to be able to better serve the public.
Cam is a recent past chair of the Greater Yellowstone Coordinating Committee, and during his time, he expanded that to bring the states on board. So actually, the directors of Wyoming Game and Fish, Montana Game and Fish, and Idaho Game and Fish are now a part of that Coordinating Committee. I'm the new chair of the GYCC. We are working this year to really highlight just amazing conservation successes that have happened over the last sixty years.
I mean, the fact that the ecosystem is full of grizzly bears, the fact that bald eagles have been restored, peregrine falcons have been restored; that we have, this last winter notwithstanding, we have had robust populations of pronghorn. We are collaborating in terms of wildfire management across the ecosystem. And so, I think enormous credit goes to the states, goes to local communities, as well as also to these federal agencies.
Yes, there have been fights, there are fights going on right now. But also, the ecosystem is arguably in better health than it was 60 years ago, as a result of these combined efforts. And I think Cam’s leadership in Yellowstone is a marker of that, and we're continuing to try to follow that example.
Wendy Corr:
I think that's fantastic. I was going to ask you - because we're getting close to being out of time here - but I was going to ask you, some of the things that you're most proud of, being there at Grand Teton National Park. You just kind of summed all of that up, about a lot of the things that have happened over the last 60 years, with the collaboration between the various agencies and things like that.
Just as a final question, you have a great responsibility in a lot of ways, to have communication and collaboration with the surrounding communities. You mentioned a lot of them, you mentioned Jackson, obviously Jackson, but Riverton, Pinedale, Dubois, these are all kind of feeder communities to get people into Grand Teton. Tell us, just as a final question here, your view and your gratitude to the different people that you get to work with, in making that happen.
Chip Jenkins:
Yeah, you know, while the Tetons are a large, iconic piece of this landscape, and we're an important Park, we're actually relatively small in terms of geography. And we are deeply, deeply intertwined with Wyoming, with Eastern Idaho. Whether it is the tourism economy, or whether it's making sure that there's thriving elk populations, or deer populations, or pronghorn populations, we are intertwined. And so I think, going to your point of, what am I most proud of? I'm really, really proud of the work that is going on between the National Park Service and the state of Wyoming and these communities, to conserve and preserve these wildlife populations. And to do that, for the benefit not only of Wyomingites, but for our country.
I'm really, really proud of the work that is going on between these communities and the National Park Service, and the Bureau of Reclamation, over working to try to understand and preserve the health of the Snake River, which is the lifeblood of Jackson Hole, of the Teton Valley. And there is great work that needs to be done there.
And I'm proud of the work that we're doing in terms of trying to understand that, while tourism is an important part of our economy here, there's a growing recognition that if we're not careful, we could lose the very values that Wyomingites care about, if we are not careful. And I think that there is a positive robust discussion about, what is the right balance? What is the right mix of things that we need to do, so that we can continue to host millions of people coming to have a bucket list trip. And that that bucket list trip consists of being able to see wild bison, wild grizzly bears, wild elk. And so, while we have successes from the last 60 years, it's our time now to make sure that we continue that legacy for the next several decades.
Wendy Corr:
That's fantastic. Chip Jenkins, this has been just a really fun conversation. I have learned so much from this conversation, and I can't wait for my next trip into Grand Teton National Park!
Chip Jenkins:
Well, when you come to visit, let us know - we'd love to show you around.
Wendy Corr:
Oh, most definitely. Thank you, Chip, for your time today. And folks, thank you for tuning in to The Roundup! What a fun conversation we've had today with the superintendent of Grand Teton National Park. We have so many more great conversations to come, so tune in every week to the Roundup - and have a wonderful week. Thanks so much. Thanks, Chip!
Chip Jenkins:
Thank you.
Wendy Corr:
Take care, folks.
